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10 Apr 2010 10:43 AM
Ascadia-PSU
By: Ascadia-PSU

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Quest for the Last Big Secret / Mysteries of SotC

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 This is not a general discussion thread. If you wish to chat, please confine it to the rest of the boards. Thank you.
 
I'm making this as an aid / reference to the hunt. Following is a recap of what we know so far.
 
  •      "That place... began from the resonance of intersecting points..."

    Lord Emon's frail, aged voice captures the player's attention in the game's opening moments. The music that has been playing in the background is dampened slightly as smoke fills the screen; through the fog, the voice pauses, presumably to take a breath. When it resumes, a slight sense of purpose can be heard among the low, sorrowful tones. It has realized that the player is listening.

    "They are memories replaced by ens and naught and etched into stone. Blood, young sprouts, sky - and the one with the ability to control beings created from light... In that world, it is said that if one should wish it, one can bring back the souls of the dead..."

    Hesitation is now apparent, as though the voice is having second thoughts about telling the player this bit of information. After a moment's pause, it adds, with a dim sort of finality,

    "... But to trespass upon that land is strictly forbidden..."

    Hundreds upon thousands of analyses could be drawn from the voice's tone alone, but the purpose of this thread lies elsewhere. Very few things in this monologue "make sense" by our standards; as such, it is to be understood, if not expected, that the rigidly dedicated would pick the text apart, piece by piece.

    The Seekers have done just that. While our interpretation is by no means complete, we have singled out two immensely important lines spoken in the first few seconds of the monologue. They are,

    "That place... began from the resonance of intersecting points..." and, "They are memories replaced by ens and naught and etched into stone".

    Speaking from a logical standpoint, Emon seems to be saying that the Forbidden Lands began from the resonance (that is, area of effect) of intersecting points. It is unclear whether he means "The Lands were created from" the intersecting points, or "The Lands became forbidden as a result of the intersecting points".

    Both routes lead to the same place; the player (or seeker) involved must find a set of something that, when viewed from a certain perspective, would line up to form a multi-rayed figure. Unfortunately, this 'set' could be anything. It could be a formation of rocks somewhere in the desert; a pair of trees in the forest; or, it could even be the colossi themselves.

    The answer, oddly enough, is right under the player's nose, so to speak, and has been since the beginning of the game. Every time the player slays a colossus, he or she is returned to the Shrine of Worship. It could be argued that it is the most important structure in the game, owing to the player's quest both beginning and ending in its halls.

    We think otherwise.

    Fumito Ueda is infamous for his attention to the most minute, intricate detail. Such appears to be the case with most of the Forbidden Lands; ruins lay toppled in the most likely angle, coastlines bear signs of erosion - even the dress on Mono's lifeless body is gently pushed back and forth by the wind. It is this same attention to detail, however, that would be the inattentive gamer's downfall.

    The Shrine of Worship is highly decorated, there is no doubt... however, one set of "decorations" appears to be more than that. The four-piece set of glyph blocks, found here, is actually a bird's-eye view of four very important locations within the Forbidden Lands. They are, in no particular order,

    Argus (Colossus #15)'s City, Hydrus (Colossus #07)'s Lake, The Shrine of Worship, and the Entrance to the Forbidden Lands. When these areas are viewed from the map screen, they form a perfect cross. The center of this cross, or the Point of Intersection, happens to lie exactly over Celosia (Colossus #11)'s Temple.

    In the back of this temple lies a doorway that appears to have been bricked (or more accurately, 'stoned') over. There are steps leading up to the door, where they come to an abrupt halt. The door is set back into the wall, and is haloed by a round, Medallion-esque embellishment. The entire temple is quasi-underground, and thus has no sunlight; consequently, the Sacred Sword will not reflect light; nor will the Queen's Sword.

    The Search has taken us this far. We are trying our hardest to figure out how to open (or alternatively, break down) this door. The medallion embellishment is of particular interest owing to the fact that the same design can be found in Barba (Colossus #06)'s prison. It also bears mentioning that the same prison is decorated with depictions of an arched doorway... haloed with a circle.

                  This is known as the theory of Intersecting Points.

 

  •      In the folktales that followed the game's release, a sunken castle is mentioned. In-game, when Dormin is telling Wander about Hydrus, he says: "A ruin lies hidden in the lake." This is interesting because Dormin always gives subtle hints about how to slay the current colossus. Always hints; this is one of two times he has said something irrelevant to the colossus. The current theory is that doing something (currently not sure what) in the forbidden lands will act as a trigger and raise the ruins from Hydrus' lake. It may be a long shot, but there's a lot of evidence pointing to this. For example: In the bible, in Job 41, a creature called the 'Leviathan' is described. Some translations say 'whale', although the text clearly calls it a 'sea serpent'. So, whale, leviathan, and serpent are all used interchangably. This is relevant because defeating a certain number of colossi on HTA (Hard Time Attack) unlocks the 'Harpoon of Thunder'. This is important because when Dormin is describing Hydrus, he also says, "...a ripple of thunder lurks underwater." The HoT's namesake could very well be a direct reference to Hydrus. It is also apparent that Hydrus is meant to resemble a Sea Serpent. As stated above, the Bible uses 'Sea Serpent' and 'Whale' interchangably. Unless we're much mistaken, Whales are generally hunted with Harpoons. It has also been confirmed that the harpoons, when thrown from a great enough height, will penetrate fairly deep into water. ...There also seems to be a climable spire sitting toward the back of Hydrus' lake.

 

In mid-update: 5-17-08

Message Edited by Ascadia on 05-17-2008 07:09 AM
Message Edited by Ascadia-PSU on 04-05-2009 07:05 AM
Message Edited by Ascadia-PSU on 04-13-2009 09:00 AM
 
 
Edit: Added label. Please click here to learn more about labels. -Super_Nova2k13
 
 

  • spadethezombie~

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    at any time does the swords light ever hit any of these symbols strait on? all of this info together makes me realize how close we could be to finding the secret. i think the sun sword should be tried next to all of the symbols since it shines in the darkness. good thread!
     
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  • Ascadia-PSU

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    Yeah. It kinda hit me while I was reading the 'Ideas' thread. If nothing else, there's no denying that a secret of some sort does exist somewhere in the game; the Azure Circle in the SG removes all possible traces of doubt. For me, anyway. It was placed there intentionally, and it's not a glitch, as you can see the glow on the edge of the wall. It's that, more than anything, that gives the lil' push to keep looking. ^^
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  • spadethezombie~

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    is there any way you can hit that circle in the garden? can somebody post a picture of it? i still cant find it
    if anyone could post another (i lost the other one ) so i can find it?
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  • ozzymandiaas

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    i find this thread very interesting for a number of reasons:
    1) i always found it strange that in the regular game (not time attack stuff) celosia's fight is the only time you're given an extra tool. - the stick - and you use it only for that fight. i often thought if there were a secret the stick would be a good route to it.
    2) i also found it odd that nowhere else in the game is there fire burning besides celosia's arena and barba's. seeing the fire in barba's basically begs you to bring the stick from celosia's arena to barba's. (which the game will allow you to do BTW) the only reason i haven't tried it is because last time i was in barba's arena i tried to climb up to the fire and realized i couldn't get close enough to light the stick even if i had it.
    3) in ICO, sticks of flame are used all the time to open doors.

    all these things put together make this one of the best secret theories i've seen.

    next question: if you had the stick at barba's arena, can anyone think of a way to get high enough to light it?

    also, i too would love to see some screen grabs of the stuff mentioned in the post. such as: the images on the shrines "top downs". the various circles in celosia's and barba's arenas. the circle in the garden.

    also, please expand: which are the 4 arena's that are pictured and create the cross?
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  • RaisinGirl

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    I'll go ahead and post all the images I have here along with any explanations.

    The 4 blocks.  These can be found in the Secret Garden, Mono's altar, the small round desert temple in Phalanx's area, on the outside of the Main Shrine, along the walls of the spiral ramp in the Main Shrine, and along the length of the long bridge.



    This is the map that shows the spots that the blocks possibly represent:

     


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  • RaisinGirl

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    These are images that explain why the blocks might represent the areas shown on the map above.  I don't have a drawing for Hydrus's area and I will admit that in some respects, this area is a little disapointing and yet at the same time promising.  I will try to do a drawing this weekend.  Here are the explanations for 3 of the blocks:











    Message Edited by sageapple on 12-28-2007 07:38 PM
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  • RaisinGirl

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    ozzymandiaas wrote:
    i find this thread very interesting for a number of reasons:
    1) i always found it strange that in the regular game (not time attack stuff) celosia's fight is the only time you're given an extra tool. - the stick - and you use it only for that fight. i often thought if there were a secret the stick would be a good route to it.
    2) i also found it odd that nowhere else in the game is there fire burning besides celosia's arena and barba's. seeing the fire in barba's basically begs you to bring the stick from celosia's arena to barba's. (which the game will allow you to do BTW) the only reason i haven't tried it is because last time i was in barba's arena i tried to climb up to the fire and realized i couldn't get close enough to light the stick even if i had it.
    3) in ICO, sticks of flame are used all the time to open doors.

    all these things put together make this one of the best secret theories i've seen.


    I think it's interesting what you say about the stick.  I feel that the arched recession in the wall of the back room of Celosia's place might be a door and I've tried several things like shining sword beams through it and exploding arrows and even getting celosia to ram into it by standing Wander in front of it.  Nothing worked of couse.  What it is is the tall arch with a round carving above it.  Whenever you see one of these round carvings in a wall, it is always above a passageway or door.  That's why I think this is a blocked off door.  Anyway, I never tried backing Celosia into it using the flaming stick.  Not sure if there would be enough time....

    This is a digram of Celosia's temple that shows what I'm talking about.  It was drawn from memory so please forgive some of the incorrect details.


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  • ozzymandiaas

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    thanks for the added info/images. i was mistaken, it isn't barba's temple with the fire. can't remember which it is at the moment.

    the aerial view of 15's lair is pretty convincing! i wish the other ones were as well. seems to require much more interpretation for those. although the gate looks pretty good as well.

    does anyone have a transcript of whole opening story where the "intersecting points" stuff comes from?
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  • ozzymandiaas

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    you're correct. i'm actually there right now and i checked to see if i remembered right. i did. there is no "normal" means of jumping up there and lighting the stick. you're just too far away. so i was thinking that idea was busted, but i remembered something else...

    awhile back i believe either baxtertimewell or ryu kaze on the GS forums found out that you could agro launch on top of 8's temple. i'm trying to repeat that. because above those two flames, way up at the cieling, is a huge hole. if you can get on the temple and get to that hole...  you're just a parachute drop away from landing on the flames with the stick.
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  • RaisinGirl

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    Here's a better map that might be helpful:






    I want to point out something about this map that I think is curious. Row zero is very empty but since it contains the entrance to the Forbidden Lands, it is necessary to show it. Just about every column and row is necessary because they contain important places and points of interest. The only exception to this is column I. So the question is, why even include it on the map? There is nothing in this column but clouds, water and empty land. All it would take is one tiny thing in that column to make its inclusion necessary. Hmmmmmm.....

    Message Edited by sageapple on 12-28-2007 09:04 PM
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  • ozzymandiaas

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    UPDATE: i got on the roof. it's actually pretty cool up there. you can wander around pretty much the whole area. however, it is very clippy and none of the ridges are grabbable. it's clearly not part of a secret. the area is also small and sadly does not extend over the room with the flames. as far as i can tell, that opening actually cuts thru the mountain that surrounds 8's lake. So, if parachuting down to the flames is part unlocking the secret, it is going to require climbing on top of that mountain range.
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  • RaisinGirl

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    "That place... began from the resonance (importance) of intersecting points... They are
    memories replaced by ens and naught and etched into stone. Blood, young sprouts,
    sky--and the one with the ability to control beings created from light... In
    that world, it is said that if one should wish it one can bring back the souls
    of the dead... But to trespass upon that land is strictly forbidden."

    About the flames, I think you're thinking about #8's temple. If I recall correctly, there was another thread way back where somebody tried to use the stick here but could not. I'll see if I can find it.










    Message Edited by sageapple on 12-29-2007 02:54 PM
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  • olivestab

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    this is why i think sotc should be nominated best game in the world. can anybody els think of a game that rallied people like us and gone crazy to find any possible way there's something else out there. this hole forum is basically based on some unknown secret where not even sure exists, jut showing some credit to the game and those who come up with the craziest theories and ideas for this secret. its simply amazing. after everything ive seen, (and ive been aware of this secret thing since it started) there better be something out there in this game thats worth everything wev done.
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  • Sumoomoo

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    Alright I have some info for this Secret Search and the thing about the gem circles in the walls. I found a replica of the Arkady Simkin websites which were if you don't remember were the Viral Campains that were for SOTC. I was looking through them last night and one thing caught my eye that related to the gem circles. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v124/Sumomo145/SOTCPossibleClue.jpg
    Later today If it will help I found a few things that related to Ico in the Secret Garden that might help us out.


    Message Edited by Sumoomoo on 12-30-2007 10:30 AM
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  • spadethezombie~

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    i don't get it...how does this corrospond w/the circles? although that small granite path does remind me of a place in the game...
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  • x_SniperWolf_x

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    Wow, this search has actually gotten quite far since I last been on these boards. I really wish Ueda or his team could clarify it for us, maybe just a "yes" or "no", so that we aren't searching in vain.
     
    Anyone know anybody that lives in Japan? :P
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  • ozzymandiaas

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    have you ever tried the ICO mace secret? it was very elaborate and somewhat random. The big bummer to me was that TeamICO revealed that easter egg to guide writers before the game was released. i've always wondered how long it would have taken or if people would have ever found it if they hadn't told us about it. i'll bet they wonder the same thing and maybe sotc was their chance to test that out. i doubt it at this point. but the temple top is such an obvious goal it'd be wierd for it not to be reachable. and, what if there is some elaborate way to get there, it'd be the greatest easter egg ever if after so many gamers have hammered on this game it still took this long to find it.

    however if, in the end, ueda has to tell us how to get there, he overshot. best easter egg ever would take 2 years to find but then be legitimately discovered by a savvy gamer.
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  • x_SniperWolf_x

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    ozzymandiaas wrote:
    have you ever tried the ICO mace secret? it was very elaborate and somewhat random. The big bummer to me was that TeamICO revealed that easter egg to guide writers before the game was released. i've always wondered how long it would have taken or if people would have ever found it if they hadn't told us about it. i'll bet they wonder the same thing and maybe sotc was their chance to test that out. i doubt it at this point. but the temple top is such an obvious goal it'd be wierd for it not to be reachable. and, what if there is some elaborate way to get there, it'd be the greatest easter egg ever if after so many gamers have hammered on this game it still took this long to find it.

    however if, in the end, ueda has to tell us how to get there, he overshot. best easter egg ever would take 2 years to find but then be legitimately discovered by a savvy gamer.

    I've never tried the mace secret myself, but I know the details about it. It was very elaborate. The only thing I'm truly worried about is whether or not they did in fact "finish" this secret, because it seems as if there is indeed something we are onto, but we keep running into dead ends.
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  • x_SniperWolf_x

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    I'll recap something I found a while back, in case any of you don't know about it. It's in #15's area, the canyon from where he climbs out of, there is a cave below that area, I have tried for hours to get there, but to no avail. The best way to see it is to have the parachute, jump off the cliff and try flying into the cliff that you're on, rotate the camera and see for yourself. There's definitely a giant hole there. Here's some pics for reference:
     
     
     
     
    Remember, jump off this cliff and try going back into it, the cave opening is right about 30 feet below the edge.
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  • spadethezombie~

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    i never noticed that cave. that is a good discovery!
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  • Cutekalina

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    I remember that cave. It's were the 15th Colossus comes out. There's no way to checkout that cave. You just kinda float by then past it.
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  • spadethezombie~

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    quick question, does the queens sword light up in the dark?
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  • Cutekalina

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    spadethezombie wrote:
    quick question, does the queens sword light up in the dark?

    I don't know, thats the only weapon I don't have in hard TA. Once I beat #15 then I'll know if it does ot not.
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  • x_SniperWolf_x

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    Cute_Arapaho wrote:

    spadethezombie wrote:
    quick question, does the queens sword light up in the dark?

    I don't know, thats the only weapon I don't have in hard TA. Once I beat #15 then I'll know if it does ot not.

    It doesn't glow in the dark per se, but it does have a faint pulsating shimmer all the time. It's pretty cool.
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  • spadethezombie~

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    so it is not like the sun-sword then?
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